The Silverfox Hustle Podcast
The hustle beats talent when talent doesn't hustle. The Silverfox Hustle is all about showcasing positive attitudes, great work ethics and consistent quality work. The Silverfox Hustle will be the vehicle that will inspire, motivate and share positive stories through its extraordinary guests. Host and creator, Shasi, is a former professional football player and now a coach developer as well as a commentator and pundit. He shares all the values and beliefs of the Silverfox Hustle. Enjoy the journey and stories! Cheers!
The Silverfox Hustle Podcast
Silverfox Hustle #89 - Herman Zailani - Head of Coach Education, Lao Football Federation
In this episode, I chat with Herman Zailani, the Head of Coach Education for the Lao Football Federation. He is a friend, a football coach & Coach Developer who has made a name for himself, carving out a path for himself in a foreign land and doing a bloody great job at it as well!
Herman reflects on his career path, which began with a deep passion for football from a young age, leading him to become a coach at several well-known clubs in Singapore like Warriors FC and Woodlands Wellington FC. He also shares his path into becoming a Coach Educator.
He reveals his valuable experience in Lao so far which also led him to coach the Lao women's team at the SEA Games and the challenges he faced without a professional playing background. This conversation highlights Herman's dedication and hard work in pursuing his dream of educating young coaches in various countries.
We also discuss the important role of a coach developer in shaping effective coaches. Herman shares his experiences attending FIFA and Premier Skills coach developer courses, as well as conducting courses in Bhutan, Taiwan, and Lao. The episode concludes with Herman's hopes to continue empowering local coaches in Lao and raising coaching standards in the region. Don’t miss out on this full episode and be inspired by Herman's extraordinary journey.
So MetaInspiring stories of resilience: overcoming struggles, finding purpose, transforming lives
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Ini adalah Podcast Silverfox Hustle. Terima kasih kerana menonton Selamat malam. Terima kasih kerana mempunyai saya.
Speaker 2:Bagus untuk kembali ke dalam keadaan yang sering. Kali terakhir saya berada di sini, saya berada di sisi lain konsol, tetapi sekarang saya berada di tempat panas, jadi mari kita menjaga Fakta bahawa anda berada di tempat panas.
Speaker 1:Herman meng have done over the past couple of years and kudos to you, congratulations to you my friend, and let's talk a little bit about Lao before we start talking and go in-depth into you, your coaching life and your coach developer life. Right, how has the holidays been? This is like. What is this? Is it a two weeks holiday break?
Speaker 2:It's a two weeks holiday break because my wife is away so I got to do my daddy duty. So I take this opportunity To come back And, you know, reconnect with friends And family And I think it's really important. You know Being away from Family and friends, so to come back, i think it's always refreshing And I think It's a way for me To rejuvenate myself as well. So, to hit the last part of the year, Let's talk about something.
Speaker 1:Irwan, how much of weight did you lose?
Speaker 2:We cannot mention what weight, but I think it's substantial amount. I think it's for the better. Now I think almost 20-25 kg, wow, just by staying in Laos.
Speaker 1:Brilliant man? No, no, listen, i think you look good. You look? No, no, listen, i think you look good, you look healthy, You look great, and I think we won't go on about the weight thing. But I tell you, listeners and people at home just has to share a little bit of his secret. Cut down on the sugar and the coke. Yeah, the coke. I think that's important Now, okay. So how does this work? So you go out there And how long will you be there? And then you come back. So the breaks are how frequent?
Speaker 2:So normally I try to be there For about 2-3 months. And then I come back And, like I said again, to come back with the family and what not. So that's the plan, because there's a lot of work to be done as well. So to come back regularly also Is not feasible. So what I try to do is to At untuk kembali secara regular juga. Tidak boleh Jadi. Apa yang saya cuba lakukan ialah sekurang-kurangnya kembali setiap 2-3 bulan. Jadi apabila ada acara penting dan perkara-perkara seperti itu, saya cuba untuk berada di luar.
Speaker 1:Selain keluarga, apa yang awak rindukan paling.
Speaker 2:Wah, saya rasa, kawan-kawan, makanan, saya rasa ia sangat. Anda mengambil keputusan untuk meng. I think it's very You take things for granted, how easy things That you can find in Singapore. But, like I said again, but more importantly I think, the love of the family And, of course, friends. So that's the main thing That I miss, nice, nice.
Speaker 1:Now, herman, you know, did you ever imagine Let's say What 15 years ago, 20 years ago, when you probably first Started out coaching That one day You would be in a foreign? 15 tahun lepas, 20 tahun lepas, ketika anda mungkin mula memulakan coaching yang suatu hari anda akan berada di tanah luar dan berpanggilan untuk pelatih di bawah anda dan untuk generasi pelatih di Laos, sama seperti di Asia, mungkin. Jadi, adakah anda pernah berfikir tentangnya dan berpikir, untuk jujur, saya rasa, as in Asia, perhaps, right, so have you? did you ever think about it and go back and think, hmm, to be fair, i think it's.
Speaker 2:I never imagined that it would be like this. Perhaps whenever you become a coach right, there's deep down that you want to try out to work in a foreign land or to to take a team in a top league kind of thing. But I've never imagined that one day I would come to Laos specifically to do this coach education thingy. But I think it's been amazing journey. I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world. So if you ask me to go back, then I think this is something that I think that I would love to do, beautiful now were you always a football person?
Speaker 1:Like growing up You talk about Playing in primary school Or secondary school Or whatever Were you always a football person?
Speaker 2:I think, growing up Just like any other boys Growing up in the 80s, 90s. You know We are ball block.
Speaker 1:Player, you know.
Speaker 2:Boy deck, basketball court, futsal court All we play All day long Until your mum Shout your name From the top floor. You know that Your mum is angry Whenever she call Your full name, so that is the time To go back. But yeah, right from young I was Very interested in football, but I've never made it To top level football.
Speaker 2:When you say top level Means what I never played in the S-League Or national team Kind of thing. Perhaps I wasn't good enough And Yeah. But If you ask me the interest, wow, it was always there. I was always Interested in football, watching football, you know. So that's what Make me happy.
Speaker 1:If I can remember right, you're a Liverpool fan.
Speaker 2:Big Liverpool fan.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but Yeah, who were your seorang penggemar Liverpool?
Speaker 1:yang besar, ya, tapi Siapa adalah hero anda? Hero Liverpool, anda?
Speaker 2:Semasa saya berkembang, saya menjadi pembinaan.
Speaker 1:Robby. Jadi saya rasa itu adalah cara yang dia menang.
Speaker 2:Dan saya rasa itu sangat luar biasa.
Speaker 1:Jadi saya rasa Awak ingat ketika saya pertama kali bertemu dengan anda dan sebagainya. Bukan, Saya rasa saya memanggil anda John Barnes Kerana Ya, bahagian and what not.
Speaker 1:I think I called you John Barnes because of the physical part you know, this is the part where I think it relates to the coaching and I don't know the transition part. When you were playing, maybe in primary school or secondary school or whatever, did you have an eye for tactics, maybe, and maybe the leadership part? you know, maybe you were not the best of players, you know and we've seen a lot of that, you know, not the best of players didn't make it to the, to the EPL or whatever, but they've got this thing for tactics, maybe, the, the, the thirst for knowledge, and maybe the leadership part, the communicating part. Did you think that you had that? just looking back?
Speaker 2:Not looking back? Maybe yes, Because you know I was the one who will, you know, gather friends. Eh, okay, 3pm we play at this court, you know, and then whenever we go, then I will try to organise the teams and whatnot. Maybe some people say the year-year-old type of guy lah, So, but I don't know. Maybe, looking back, that's part of the grounding that I have, that making me interested in football coaching as well.
Speaker 1:Did tactics come to you easily? I'm talking about when you were playing, like maybe a coach says, okay, you are in the back four and talking about travelling with the defence and moving and shifting and whatever. Did it come easily In terms of You know, grasping The understanding, the understanding?
Speaker 2:So even from a young age I was more interested in this. When I watch Football games I was always very interested To see The tactical aspect of it. So I think that bug I got very, very early, but I never would imagine That one day I would work As a football coach.
Speaker 1:So let's talk about The coaching part then. Right, how did the journey start, like, what made you Then think Okay, and what, at what stage And what age?
Speaker 2:Like I said again, i didn't play At a very high level, but the interest of football Was always there.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So after School, of football was always there. So after school I I sign up to be a policeman because, I. I didn't go to NS, so I sign up to be a policeman. It's it's interesting because one day I was doing at the counter the NPP counter there's a complainant.
Speaker 1:He was complain about something so I was lodging the police report, so you were regular, regular then, out of the blue, he say Eh, why don't you take a coaching course Then? I say Eh what, this guy random man. How is that possible? I don't know. Maybe he is godsend or what I don't know.
Speaker 2:But random Coaching course.
Speaker 1:No lah, because I never play high level Cannot.
Speaker 2:No, no, no. You just Who is this guy? I Siapa lelaki ini?
Speaker 1:Saya tidak tahu.
Speaker 2:Sekarang anda bertanya kepada saya. Saya juga lupa siapa dia, tapi sekarang anda bertanya Itu adalah cara ia bermula. Jadi kemudian Saya berfikir Okeylah, saya mula mencari, saya mencari lebih banyak tentang ini. Kemudian FAS Ada kursus pengajian, jadi saya mula dengan mudah.
Speaker 1:Sejak berapa umur 21.
Speaker 2:Saya sudah melakukan diploma C Or what not. So Okay, i didn't Become top player, but That time when people play Top football Was the time I used To do my football license And gain my experience, so I think it works out Well. Lah, which year was this? It was 2021, so I was Age 21, i took my Not 2021, no 2001, 2001, 2001. I took my What do you call that? Prelim.
Speaker 1:Last time right 2023.
Speaker 2:I took my 2003. 2003. 2003, my maths Koyak je 2003. I took my.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:No 2021, i took my C license, then 2026, i took with you B diploma. Yes, interesting, so when you were Taking your licenses, right? No 2021.
Speaker 1:I took my C license. Then, 2026, i took with you B diploma. Yes, yes, yes, interesting. So when you were Taking your licenses Right And you talk, obviously we had the instructors They call it the instructors Then, instead of the Coach developers. Then Who were your instructors From C to A? Do you remember?
Speaker 2:Okay, prelim it was Bashe. So wow, i was quite inspired from that, and then I do C. C, it was Wow. I think B is Kade Kade. I think C is Wow, it's a good question No.
Speaker 1:C is Surya, and Oh, okay, mike Wong, i think, and your A.
Speaker 2:My A was Mike Wong. I did in Singapore, but I actually failed That A in Singapore Right Then I went to Philippines. Saya berjaya di Singapura, tapi saya benar-benar gagal di Singapura. Kemudian saya pergi ke Filipina dan saya berjaya di Filipina.
Speaker 1:Baik, Jadi kita bercakap tentang perjalanan anda dari C ke A dan semua pengertian yang anda ambil. Apa adalah cabaran anda? Adakah ia mudah Hanya melihat ke belakang dan adakah ia berbisik? What were the challenges? Was it easy Just looking back And you know?
Speaker 2:Was it a breeze or I don't think it's a breeze. Like I said again, there's still this stigma That okay, if you don't play the game, it will Make it a bit harder to you, and I. I think it's. It's a fair comment, you know, because If you are ex-player, you have Advantage in terms of Your playing ability. You have already access to To coaching style. And top coaching and what not, right? Well, i have to start from From literally ground zero, right? So I think.
Speaker 1:But it's not so bad, because you did play for school. It's not so bad, but it's still.
Speaker 2:Nowhere near National players and what not, not So, but I never Want to take it As a disadvantage, so got to Keep on working hard Grinding To get the results.
Speaker 1:And what not?
Speaker 2:So that's why, if you see my, my Coaching journey, the gap is Quite big In between.
Speaker 1:Licenses, so I.
Speaker 2:It's not like CBA, within 5 years, no, gapnya agak besar Di antara Licenser. Jadi I'm, i'm, i'm, i'm, i'm, i'm, i'm, i'm, i'm, i'm, i'm, i'm, i'm, i'm, i'm, i'm, i'm, i'm, i'm, i'm, i'm, i'm, i'm, i'm, i'm, i'm, i'm You. You Learn from somebody. So I think then That's where you get the wholesome Education, part of it.
Speaker 1:Listen, i like what you say. There's two points that I Picked up from here And obviously, because I'm a coach developer, i'm a coach as well And I played the game as well. So there are a few things That's so so Important that I picked up From there. Number one The debate, the ongoing debate. It's Not only because you have been a good player you can be a coach, but it's important that the football knowledge is already there And the finer details Technically, then I think you have an advantage, but looking at the flip side, not all footballers are great communicators, are great educators.
Speaker 1:That's the part where they need to make the jump, exactly Because that's not easy. You know, if you think And people watching, i've seen so many, we've seen so many Footballers Going for courses And I say, Okay, we've got a problem In terms of that Communicating Or trying to put across something. So that's a very good point. The next point We talk about Is That's we talk about is that's?
Speaker 2:C to.
Speaker 1:B to A. You made a very good point and I think, in a way, you know it depends on what you do and your experiences. Right, it shouldn't be C. After one year you do your B, after one year you do your A, you're collecting certificates. You're collecting certificates is one, and I think you're getting a free pass at whatever. It shouldn't be the way. I think you're getting a free pass At whatever. It shouldn't be the way, correct, you know, because There should be A, c And then you Go under, maybe a tutelage.
Speaker 1:Or a mentor And then You make the jump Because it's not easy, right, correct. Now the next question is How important is having a mentor After, for example, you do your C, so you get that license. So what then? Because a lot of coaches Are lost In between. So what happens then?
Speaker 2:So I think this is Just to go back Slightly right. Firstly, i don't think There should be Right or wrong, whether you are ex-player. Or you are not So that, and I think a lot of Non-player Also become very defensive. Oh no lah, just because you, you know You ex-player Doesn't mean, but I think you should also Embrace that You never play. You say you never play Why you want to be embarrassed About it, right So? but now What is next is that You gain your knowledge From Many, many different sources.
Speaker 2:And one of the sources Whereby you want to gain knowledge Is from Mentorship, by observation And, i think, similar to playing, whereby It's skill acquisition To get that Ability to play At the top level. To be a coach Is also a form of Skill acquisition, alright. So it's important. When you talk about Skill acquisition, time must be invested, and this is where I said that To be a good Coach, you need to invest time. So after you do C, then you do go and coaching at an appropriate level. So, even though there's no mentor, but the fact that you're out there coaching every day, the environment, become your mentor. But of course, it's good if you have somebody who's willing to guide you, willing to share knowledge with you. So then, after that, you take your B, then you go to the next level. So it's kind of Scale folding.
Speaker 2:Your learning And your experience. And I think this is Very, very important And, like I said again, your ability To reflect Is It's It's so important That if you are Unable to reflect, then I think You can come under Pep Guardiola Or Moreno But You just see, but nothing actually Come into your brain. But you know, but you just see, but nothing actually come into your brain.
Speaker 2:But, like I said again, don't rush, because if you rush, you get found out as well suddenly you got A diploma but you cannot even do a proper annual periodization, then how does it reflect on you? right, and I think I was thankful to the coaches that I've worked alongside. I've worked alongside Saswa Akbar, so To the coaches that I've worked, alongside.
Speaker 2:I've worked alongside Saswa Akbar, so, and being an assistant coach, you get the front seat of learning Right. You see what they do daily, day in, day out, and the things that they do good, oh, this is what I can do. The thing that they make mistake, oh, you can also pick up from this. So I think this is, like I said, an important journey, seperti yang saya katakan, perjalanan yang penting yang, sebagai seorang pelatih, anda tidak boleh mengelaknya. Jadi, saya rasa, ketika anda bercakap tentang mentor, tidak sahaja mentor untuk bercakap, tetapi mentor dalam hal yang berkaitan dengan siapa yang anda bekerja dengan.
Speaker 1:Saya rasa itu sama penting. Ya, saya rasa itu adalah poin yang sangat baik yang anda bawa tentang lingkungan juga. Itu juga boleh menjadi mentor anda. Bukan Apa What's happening, But I think it's very important That you have to see And evaluate things On your own as well. And going back to mentors Who were your mentors And when I say mentors Guys, people And coaches watching at home It's not like A mentor means Someone you have to go through And it's like A done deal. Okay, you are my mentor.
Speaker 2:You know It's like Shake hands and say, can you be my mentor, like shake hands and say can you be my mentor?
Speaker 1:Ya, it's like, you know, informal learning, where you think, wah, this guy is good, i'm going to take something you know from him And then I take something from him. Just going back to your coaching journey, right, who were your mentors?
Speaker 2:I got to say that a lot of people came into my footballing life And I think who you mix around is just as important Of Mix around Is just as important, of course, because they are the, the people who will shape Your ideas of football. Then you can bounce off ideas And what not. But I've got to say Slobodan Palkovic Really really have A huge impact on me.
Speaker 1:He was, by the way, the Former TD Right FES, so I think he Inspired a generation Of coaches. What was good about him?
Speaker 2:I think the fact that he took a more hands-on approach to coach learning. So he conducted the coaches morning weekly. You can say whatever is the book that he developed. But, like I said, all coaches have different ideas. It's about how you put it together, and I had the opportunity actually to work as his assistant for a year. Coaches Have different ideas. It's about how you put it Together, so, and I had the opportunity Actually to work As his assistant For For a year, so I think that's That's Really shaped me To be The coach that I am today. Yeah, nice, nice.
Speaker 1:Now let's Let's talk about The coach Or the teams That you coached before. You know, and What were the teams and level that you coached before.
Speaker 2:So in terms of level is I've coached from grassroots all the way to professional teams. I've coached children, women's team, school team, so I've coached the whole works. But in terms of more professional one, i did the COE, so I think that's mandatory. I Or more professional, i did the COE, so I think that's Mandatory. I think if you want to be, to learn your ropes As a coach, i think That plays a huge Part in my development. I was in Sengkang Punggol And then I became The prime lead coach In Sengkang Punggol as well. I was the coach For Woodlands Wellington, back then COE, and then I was the prime league coach and assistant athletic coach for Warriors.
Speaker 2:This is interesting because growing up I was a big fan of SFFC, you know so and it was like wow, suddenly you you get to coach the team that you supported. So that was, i think, one of the highlights in in my career. And then I alsoangan Tampines Rovers Prime League, assistant to S League dan juga pasukan wanita. Jadi saya rasa dan paling baru, saya adalah pengadakan kepala pasukan wanita Laos Kami pergi ke Pertama. Pertama. Jadi, sekali lagi, saya mempunyai pelbagai pengalaman, tapi mungkin tidak mempunyai apa-apa. So again, i have a variety of Experience, but maybe Not master of anything.
Speaker 1:But no, no, i think that That experience Will help you a lot To deal with people, different kinds of people, at different levels as well, you know, and it's networking as well, and From all those, and even the assistant coach For the Tanjong Pagar side.
Speaker 2:Just a couple. Yeah, yeah, i miss that. I was the assistant coach untuk tanjong pangga. Ya, saya rindu.
Speaker 1:Saya juga pelatih, asisten beberapa tahun lepas ada sebuah kegemaran di bawah yang boleh anda fikirkan. Mungkin beberapa, saya tidak tahu, atau mungkin satu, jika anda bertanya, saya berfikir kepada yang saya.
Speaker 2:Saya adalah pelatih C-game untuk Laos. Itu game coach for the Laos is really big highlight to be a national coach bringing team to a.
Speaker 2:C game you know, and there was one game, the last game we actually played against Singapore. So I think that was, i think, a really good highlight to my coaching journey. It takes quite a long year before I finally take a senior team but Sebelum saya mengambil Pasukan senior. Tapi, seperti yang saya katakan, selangkah-langkah Saya belajar banyak. Tapi, seperti yang saya katakan, ini Dan tentu saja Penampilan saya Mencari Warriors FC. Itu Adalah pengalaman Bagus.
Speaker 1:Pernahkahan. Ada masa yang mengecewakan. Anda fikir Hanya di atas kepala.
Speaker 2:Sekarang Anda fikir As a coach. I think you always Be controlled by Results.
Speaker 2:You know, When you Lose You always feel Terrible And I think I have my fair share of losses. But Now, on hindsight, i wouldn't want to say There is any great disappointment, because I think that Every single moment, whether I win, doesn't mean that I'm the any great disappointment, because I think that every single moment, whether I win, doesn't mean that I'm the best coach and when I lose I'm the worst coach. So I always have this in me that I will always reflecting on myself how can I improve? and I think it's been there all along and I I think you cannot ever say that if you are working in football, something that you enjoy, that's a disappointing moment. You cannot. You are blessed that you wake up, you talk football, you mix around with footballers, you enjoy the game, you get paid for it, and I think you can never say that there's any moment that you regret or disappoint. I think you'll be ungrateful if you say that There you go, guys. You. I think You are ungrateful If you say that.
Speaker 1:There you go, guys. You know, i think that's Gratitude as well, blessed that you are actually, or you actually love What you are doing.
Speaker 2:Yes, And you never work For a day of your life, right You? are just thinking that Oh, everyday I am like You know the balls, the grass, the smell of the grass, you know.
Speaker 1:It's wonderful Coach developing And it used to be called A coach instructor, so now it's coach developer They call it. Now, how important is the coach Or the role of a coach developer?
Speaker 2:I think it's Massive, because you are the multipliers. You are responsible To develop coaches Who will have a big impact On the players. So I think you need to do this right. So, as a coach developer, you need to have a good understanding of football, you need to be able to communicate your ideas and you need to groom the coaches so that when they go out on the field, they can really contribute, because if I fail in my role, then the result is going to be So that When they go out On the field, they can really contribute, because if I fail in my role, then The result Is going to be You know, can be seen Down the road. So I think that's.
Speaker 1:Responsibility wise, it's huge. Isn't it And, yeah, it's very, it's a given. The responsibility is huge, but it's everything else Because Take it or leave it. You are a role model, tapi itu adalah segala-galanya, kerana, ambil atau lepaskan, kamu adalah model, rol Dalam setiap maksud, dalam panggilan, dalam panggilan. Itu sangat penting, apa yang kamu lakukan, apa yang kamu katakan, apa yang kamu katakan Di media sosial.
Speaker 2:Itu sangat penting.
Speaker 1:Bila perjalanan kamu Mula dalam perjalanan Pembangunan koc ini.
Speaker 2:Saya rasa. So I had a sting in FAS, i did the JCOE. So I think one day Coach Jita actually say Okay, we sending you to Kuala Lumpur To do a FIFA coach developer course. So, That was the first time, actually, i actually Did any courses, but The main one Was that I attended this Premier Skills. It's a Foundation arm of The Premier League Whereby they came to Singapore for the tour, and part of the legacy is that they educate or empower local coaches, right. So I thought attending that course changes everything so from wanting to be a coach.
Speaker 2:Now my eyes.
Speaker 1:Maybe my calling would be to be a coach developer, so Maybe my calling would be To be a coach developer.
Speaker 2:So I think that was A turning point In a way, in my life as well. Nice.
Speaker 1:You know you've had Experiences of delivering courses Almost everywhere, right? Which is the furthest you've been In terms of delivering courses.
Speaker 2:I've been to Bhutan. I've been to Taiwan. I've been all around. So, as part of my role As FIFA technical, isn't Vincent in Bhutan right now, saya telah pergi ke Taiwan. Saya telah berada di seluruh negara. Jadi, sebagai sebahagian daripada peranan saya sebagai teknikal, FIFA Bukan Vincent di Bhutan sekarang Bukan. Tidak, saya rasa dia kembali ke Singapura.
Speaker 1:Bukan Bhutan, negara yang paling bahagia di dunia.
Speaker 2:Ya, tempat yang luar biasa.
Speaker 1:Adakah anda selalu menangis?
Speaker 2:di sana Tidak, tapi saya rasa mereka. I think it's good people, beautiful country to be with. I think you can see that why they are not so stressful.
Speaker 1:Right, which comes to the point. Right. You've been to all these places. What are the differences you see when you are delivering courses, Like, maybe, in Singapore? you've done it In Taiwan, in Bhutan and here and there in Laos as well right now. What are the differences you feel?
Speaker 2:in delivering a course. I think at the end of the day, it's still football right Di sini dan di sana, di Laos juga. Sekarang, apa perbezaan yang anda rasa Dalam menyampaikan kursus? Saya rasa pada akhir hari Ia masih bola bola, tapi perbezaan Adalah kultur. Saya rasa ini adalah sesuatu Yang banyak orang Mengelakkan Kultura, walaupun saya menjadi Kedudukan Kultura sangat penting, kerana Kita semua di Asia, tetapi Singapura dan Malaysia Juga berbeza. Jadi anda mesti Mengerti kultura, anda mesti mengerti Alaman. Jadi saya rasa Itu adalah Peran utama Apabila anda Mengalami kursus Untuk memahami Apa jenis Kultura, apa jenis Alaman. Jadi anda perlu Buat kata-kata Do your groundwork, do your recce, talk to the coach, the TD and what not. So you understand better.
Speaker 1:What does it affect? Like as in the culture. What does it affect? Give me a specific example.
Speaker 2:Okay. So in, for example, if I do, in Taiwan, for example, the language, or in Lao Language itself, is already a barrier Right. For me to be To go to coach developer, i need to communicate effectively, and if you cannot even speak the language, that is already a barrier Right. So you must make effort now To think of ways, how you can deliver your thoughts, your ideas better. And because nowadays You want to conduct courses two ways Right.
Speaker 2:So, Because they cannot speak English. Sometimes people tend to Not to open up, not that they are not knowledgeable, it's because Maybe they feel Okay, i cannot speak English, so that's why Better don't talk. So again, that is the main thing As the role of The most challenging part Of a coach developer How to extract that From your participants, from your coaches. So give me an example How do you extract that from from your participants, from your coaches?
Speaker 1:so give me an example. How do you extract that in terms of language? right now, for example, you go to Bhutan and we talk about the language barrier. So how, for example, you get them to speak to you? maybe you're asking them a question about I don't know a formation or whatever. So how do they?
Speaker 2:so first I think you need to reverse back everything. You need to create the environment first. So when I went to Taiwan, I went to, or even in Laos now, the first thing is music Make people relax. So I play the local music first. So when they come into the class the classroom is already set up. This guy, he play local music, he can speak. Then, of course, the first thing that come out must be their local language, the Sabadi, or your Ni Hao Ma kind of The hellos.
Speaker 2:You make an effort already to make a fool of myself to go. So then they already know eh, this guy can, why can't we? So that must be set first. So I think you need to look at the bigger picture. If you just jump in And you ask me This type of question, how do I explain?
Speaker 2:Of course it cannot be done. But if you Now reverse And how you create that environment, how you make them Feel that, oh, okay, this is actually okay. So in Lao, for example, um, our coaching courses, now coaches actually come with laptop.
Speaker 1:Right right.
Speaker 2:Previously they wouldn't even want to bring this right.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:But you encourage them, Even if they make mistakes and whatnot. You teach them. So this is where they, you gain their trust and then they say it's fine to do So. I think this is where I think the environment again, keadaan. Sekali lagi, anda perlu menjaga keadaan positif, kemudian anda boleh mengekstrak Sekarang bagaimana anda, jika anda seorang CD seorang pembangunan coach dan anda telah melakukan ini selama 2 atau 3 tahun.
Speaker 1:Adakah ada jalan untuk memperbaiki diri anda, kerana anda mungkin berfikir bahawa saya mel, for example, and you keep on. You are doing this almost every year the same not the same way contents may change here and there, but can you upgrade yourself in the way you do things?
Speaker 2:I think now with technology, it's very easy for you to gain a lot of knowledge from FIFA website and what not?
Speaker 2:but I think this is a very important question because I myself I actually did my master's So in performance football coaching right. So from there it kind of opened up my eyes about football. It's actually a whole new dimension that I realised that after 15, 16 years of working in football I didn't realise this. So, things like culture, things like power, and it's the politics 16 tahun kerja di futbol Saya tidak menyedari ini. Jadi, perkara-perkara seperti Kultura, perkara seperti kekuatan Dan Politik, politik Anda tidak boleh Hanya mengambilnya, ia adalah sebahagian daripadanya.
Speaker 2:Anda mesti mengambilnya, dan kemudian anda mesti Tidak mengatakan bermain, tetapi anda mesti Mampu menghapuskan perkara-perkara. So as a coach developer, first knowledge. You must always look, you must keep yourself updated, looking at the technical reports and what not. But more important, i think, for you to gain a deeper knowledge. So take on a more formal education, taking masters or doing your diploma in sports science. It helps. So I think it can be done.
Speaker 1:Brilliant. Now. Now in general, right, what you I'm talking about in Singapore specifically, right? what are the strong points of our coaches when you are delivering courses and stuff in Singapore? what are our strong points and also the negatives, in your opinion, from your experiences?
Speaker 2:I think in Singapore I think most of the coaches you are you know technology savvy and what not, so it's very easy. I think most of the coaches You are You know Technology savvy And what not, so it's very easy. You don't want to Conduct courses And then They speak English. You can grab Ideas easily. So I think That is the plus point Of Singapore coaches. So we are exposed to So many Different kinds of football, so I think that part Is easy. I'm not sure whether Sometimes The local coaches Are we hungry enough To go that extra mile, because in Singapore I think To get coaching job is very easy. You can.
Speaker 2:You can become a coach On the weekend So many academies and you can actually earn good money. So this to me, sometimes make you forget your journey. That you are here actually to improve football, But sometimes now we go for the money instead.
Speaker 2:Which is not wrong, please don't get me wrong, it's not wrong. But you start to do multiple session for the sake of it and you start to jump from one session then no planning, i just come, this is what I see, and I think it's not only affecting the players, but it's affecting you as a coach as well, because now you come in without planning, so you are doing it just for the money, so it's become work from something that you enjoy. Now that's why I say the journey because of the money. So, which is not wrong, but if that's what you want to do, it's fine. But I think if you want to talk about to improve, i think you need to stay true to the course quality dips, isn't it?
Speaker 1:When you do that, when you start doing that, Herma? let's talk about Lau man. You know how did?
Speaker 2:you get this role.
Speaker 1:I don't know, Maybe it's because I know, I know It's that guy at the police post.
Speaker 2:So we got to remind back. No, maybe it's because I think, even for I I have good relationship.
Speaker 1:With.
Speaker 2:Sundar, even when I was in Singapore. He was in Singapore, i think, when the role Became available. He asked me Whether I'm interested to take. And what not? So I think That Kicks it off. So it start off From there. And then I was thinking To take Or not.
Speaker 1:So How long was this ago?
Speaker 2:Actually we had this conversation maybe 3-4 years before then after that, covid hits so I think lucky, we didn't go, and what not? so then, after that I thought it's finished then, after that, after covid, and things open up. Then Sundaram ask me again last 2 years 2 years ago right, how difficult was the 2 tahun, 2 tahun sebelum betul betul, betul, betul, betul, betul betul betul, betul, betul, betul, betul, betul betul betul, betul, betul, betul, betul, betul, betul, betul, betul, betul, betul, betul, betul, betul betul.
Speaker 1:Bet Ruth Hulit. Yeah, so you know which generation you are.
Speaker 2:So I think it is Yeah, if you take family out.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It is easy decision, but the moment you put in family, yeah, that is a very difficult decision.
Speaker 1:I'll coin this man, this is a sexy project in law. I'll speak to Sundro about this as well. Now, okay. So when you got the job right, what is your job scope, your role, your primary role, and what was there A goal Or a target set for you? I don't like to use the KPI word.
Speaker 2:So it was quite Obvious To do the coach Education part, to do the CCE program, to run the C diploma, b diploma, a diploma. But the main target there was to actually improve the level of coaching. And they were applying for the coaching convention, the AFC coaching convention, which we managed to get the A coaching convention December last year. So in a way, explain to us.
Speaker 1:What is that? What does that mean?
Speaker 2:So in AFC now There's this Coaching convention Is like your ISO.
Speaker 1:So Quality control.
Speaker 2:Quality control, that You have done it According to What AFC have Have Stated how it should be done And things like that. And when they come and visit they think this is a quality project and what not. So that's why you can use the AFC. So if you take the course in Singapore or you take the course in Laos, the diploma will be recognised in Japan or in Korea, kind of thing. So it means a lot. It means that you are on par With the powerhouse Of Asia football. So I think that's A big thing, and for Lau To get that A coaching convention Is, i think it's Something really A proud moment For myself as well.
Speaker 1:Brilliant. Congratulations, man. It's brilliant. Yeah, was it a daunting task At first, when you got the job? And then maybe your first day at work, and you're sitting in the office And you're thinking What have I got into? You know, because it's huge, isn't it? It's huge.
Speaker 2:And you don't have any reference.
Speaker 2:You literally sit in the office. Wow, so now, where do I start? right, i have no idea Whether the people will even accept me. So now, what syllabus should we put? menerima saya jadi sekarang apa yang kita patut letakkan dan tapi, seperti yang saya katakan, kerana ia hampir seperti canvas yang tak berbuka, itulah yang membuat projek itu sangat seksi. Jadi Sunderm mempunyai banyak percayaan dalam saya dan dia sangat mendukung. Dia berkata ok, lakukan apa, jadi segala-galanya yang saya bayangkan. Dan ia adalah sebuah pelajaran yang luar biasa. Jadi saya benar-benar melihat ke belakang. Saya berfikir, wow, ini sangat luar biasa.
Speaker 1:Baiklah kembali ke itu bagaimana kerja dengan Sundrom Dan jelasnya orang-orang yang tidak tahu, tidak dalam masa kita atau apa-apa. Dia seorang legenda, bukan Jadi bagaimana, dan dia adalah pengarah teknikal Dia adalah pengarah teknikal. Bagaimana, by the way?
Speaker 2:this is someone that when I was young, i was watching him playing you know, in the Malaysia Cup. He doing the bicycle kick, and what?
Speaker 2:not and then now I'm a colleague. You know we go lunch together and what not. So I think it's amazing and as a person, you know he's a fantastic person. You know pleasant personality, very caring and, like I said, as a boss, you know he's really very supportive. You know his open-mindedness really, you know, surprised me, you know. So, and not because he's my boss I say this, but it's really you got to give it to him How he evolved from a coach and then to become a TD. So I think that's amazing.
Speaker 1:And I think it helps and works. You spoke about the blank canvas part also. I think he gives you The Everything That is needed To do a job Correct, because sometimes You think about it. You know Why employ me When you are always telling me What to do right, correct, you know Precisely right.
Speaker 1:So you employ people to do the job, don't? You know? Don't come in And start messing things up, and I think that's A brilliant relationship. You know, it's a two-way thing And it's a Wonderful relationship, and I got to say that, even The federation itself. The.
Speaker 2:GS The president. They are amazing people, you know. They support you Whatever you want to do, and Lao have actually Amazing facilities.
Speaker 1:So this is something That we don't have to.
Speaker 2:People don't know. Then people are thinking Eh, are you working in kampung? No, we've got You. Come to our federation. You'll be amazed That what we have. So it's no excuse for me Not to deliver it, to be honest. So it kind of inspire me To do things really well.
Speaker 1:Brilliant And you spoke about the country as well, and it helps you lose weight as well.
Speaker 2:That's important. It's a plus point Because actually, when I watch social media, i see you doing your Workout.
Speaker 1:You know, listen, we spoke about the convention, the AA convention. Talk us through Just a few Highlights From two years ago Till now. What you have achieved So far, at least for now.
Speaker 2:In terms of the coach education.
Speaker 1:We came to coach education, i think.
Speaker 2:One of the other things that we done is that we have actually done the coach developer course. So what I've done is that I've multiplied myself, so that is to me one of the proudest course that I've done in Lahu is because I it's pointless that I keep everything to me and then I do all the courses. Then it become that. It become my show, right? What I've seen that What we need to do is that We need to empower the locals. And when you empower the locals, you'll be surprised that Eh, they actually.
Speaker 2:They have this growth mindset. They have this ambition as well. You know so. And now we have about 15 coach developers And they are going to be A better coach developer than me, because why? They speak the language, they understand the people, they understand the culture. So now I don't do the C diploma anymore, they will run it.
Speaker 1:Beautiful.
Speaker 2:Right. So now I'm doing B And then some of them Are following me to the B. Then hopefully By next year I don't have to do the B. They run the course. So this is what I think is very important for them. That's why I say that this course is most important course that I've done in Laos, not the A, but the coach developer course. So that is one. Then number two, we actually done the elite youth B diploma. We actually I'm not sure, but we might be among the first country in ASEAN to actually do an elite youth Diploma run by your own federation. So what is this elite youth? So, because, see, our coaching courses is CBA, then you simply assume that You know, you understand in depth Of how to develop youth, similar to Goalkeeping. We got the goalkeeping specialist course, we got fitness specialist course. So why can't we have an elite youth?
Speaker 1:Oh, specifically to elite, for elite, ah, understand You.
Speaker 2:Everything that you do Is to More focus on the youth How to do Wow, how to do talent identification, how to do talent development. We talk about player maturity, we talk about the Relative age index And things like that. So The coaches have more exposure to it And Kita bercakap tentang maturiti pemain, kita bercakap tentang umur yang relatif dan sebagainya. Jadi pemain mempunyai lebih banyak penyambangan terhadapnya. Jadi, apabila mereka pergi ke kelab mereka dan mereka melakukan pemain, mereka tahu bagaimana untuk berplan.
Speaker 2:mereka tahu bagaimana untuk berkomunikasi dengan pemain, So normally It's done by FIFA And, going forward, afc is going to Introduce Introduce this As part of the Coaching course as well.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:But Lau, actually Brilliant man, we did it In advance And actually we also Work with CoachUp. You spoke, to. Tarik before. So what happened was that We use the CoachUp platform.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:We do the talent Identification So part of the course, the coaches, kami menggunakan platform CoachUp dan kami melakukan identifikasi talent Jadi bagian dari kursus ini. ketika pemain melihat pelakon, mereka akan mengupload nama pelakon data kekuatan dan sebagainya ke dalam sistem. Jadi sekarang kami sebenarnya mengucapkan teknologi dan kami menggunakannya. Jadi kami menjelaskan pelakon kami kepada salah satu, exposing our coaches To all of this.
Speaker 1:Brilliant man. Herman, you know You spoke about The coach developer course For the locals there. You know You're right about Why keep everything right, because it's about sharing, it's about learning and stuff. And I tell you what Down I don't know Five years or whatever Down the road When you leave Laos. Right, you're going to be like A legend there, man. No, no, seriously, you're going to be like a legend there. Seriously, you're going to be a legend. In Malaysia they call them Dato I don't know what they want to call you.
Speaker 1:It's brilliant. Congratulations, man. What else is in store for you In terms of? Is there a contract extension? What is it like going to be?
Speaker 2:Actually, i signed My contract Just for one year, initially, because I'm not sure.
Speaker 1:How it's going to be, but it's been two years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but after that We actually renewed my contract For a couple more years.
Speaker 1:Okay, good.
Speaker 2:So I'm going to stay there For at least A couple more years. So That is one. But next year We are aiming really high. We are aiming to get the. We plan to do the Pro diploma And we aim to get the coaching convention for the pro diploma. And what we have planned is that we think this is going to be the best pro diploma, not only in ASEAN. I think it's going to be in Asia.
Speaker 2:So, this is my promise to them We will make it happen that this is going to be the best pro diploma.
Speaker 1:Good luck man Herman. You know we're with you. At least I'm with you, you know. Now, before we go right, where does Herman go from here? Okay, forget about one year, two years, Forget about the pro diploma. Now, Maybe five, ten years down the road, where do you think you'll be at?
Speaker 2:If immediately I will go take care of my kid now.
Speaker 1:I.
Speaker 2:But that's Aside. I'm not sure. I think I always want to Affect The game at a global level. I hope that I can Affect change in terms of Coaching, at least in Asia, maybe. So maybe the next target Is to work In AFC. Who knows If I can Go to FIFA. So I'm selling myself now.
Speaker 1:But that's the target. Please do.
Speaker 2:That's the target. I want to aim high. So I think that's That's the target. But You know, sometimes you can only plan, and if things work out, it work out. But if not, at least I've given it a shot And That's what I want to do.
Speaker 1:Are you planning to come back?
Speaker 2:Oh, singapore has always been home right?
Speaker 1:Is it as sexy as now?
Speaker 2:Now with the UTR project, i think it is. It is Interesting project And I'll be lying to say that I'm not keeping in touch with people here, And I think it's Ambitious project.
Speaker 2:Whether we can pull it off or not, no I don't know. But I'll be more than open to To To come back if there's Any offers Or if You know. But the project must be, like you say, sexier than to to to come back if there's any offers or if you know, but the project must be, like you say, sexier than what Lau is at the moment. But let's keep it open and hopefully you know, whatever direction I take, it will be part of my amazing journey that I had in football so far.
Speaker 1:I think whoever's watching this, who's going to listen to this And you know You make up your mind, because I know what I would do. You know if I'm the head of anything, you know I think We've got someone who's Forward thinking. You know Someone who's always thinking forward And thinking about football And so giving as well. So the choice is yours, my friends.
Speaker 1:Any final messages for coaches Terima kasih. It's not a bed of roses Going forward. There's always failures And stuff like that. So, from someone With your experience, any Words of encouragement Or even advice For these coaches?
Speaker 2:I think I'm not In any position To advise anybody, but What my journey Have taught me Is that actually To appreciate things Around you.
Speaker 2:I think, that's The key thing. Enjoy what you are doing And, like I said, football is a result-based industry And if you will be so hard on yourself when you lose or you feel proud of yourself when you win, it will affect your mental health. What's important is always be grounded. Surround yourself with good people, be honest with yourself, and I think that is the key. Continue to work hard. That's the most important thing.
Speaker 2:Don't look at I want to be here because I want to become famous. I want to earn more money. Yes, of course money is important And of course, the recognition is just as important, but it cannot be what drives you. What drives you must be football, it must be intrinsic, and you always want to improve yourself. You want to better yourself, and the only way to be better is because you have good environment. If you are surrounded with good coaches, the level of football improves, but if you are the only best coach, i tell you, you also cannot improve. So that's the key thing. So in order for, i think, our local football to improve, the whole football community, we need to raise up our level of knowledge And experience, and only then, i think, we can become a better footballing country.
Speaker 1:Well said And that probably is the best way To end the podcast, mr Herman, hanya kemudian, saya rasa, kita boleh menjadi negara pemain bola yang lebih baik. Baiklah, dan itu mungkin adalah cara terbaik untuk mengakhiri podcast. Encik Herman, terima kasih banyak-banyak kerana berada di sini Dan kami berjaya. Berjaya, saya rasa, pemain di Singapura. Kami berjaya. Berjaya untuk anda apabila anda kembali ke Laos dan untuk perjalanan anda ke depan. Juga, beri salam kepada to Mr V Sundaramuthi, the legend himself. You know, we all remember the bicycle kick still till today, and we hope him, we hope both of you guys, have a great journey ahead as well. Alright, so thank you very much. This has been the latest episode of the Silver Fox Hustle podcast with my guest Herman. Don't forget, like I said before we go, click on the follow, subscribe button. We are everywhere And share the love with your friends. Till the next episode. Cheers, Terima kasih kerana menonton.