The Silverfox Hustle Podcast
The hustle beats talent when talent doesn't hustle. The Silverfox Hustle is all about showcasing positive attitudes, great work ethics and consistent quality work. The Silverfox Hustle will be the vehicle that will inspire, motivate and share positive stories through its extraordinary guests. Host and creator, Shasi, is a former professional football player and now a coach developer as well as a commentator and pundit. He shares all the values and beliefs of the Silverfox Hustle. Enjoy the journey and stories! Cheers!
The Silverfox Hustle Podcast
Silverfox Hustle Football Talk - Hasney Aljofree, Head of Coach Education, Football Association of Singapore
I sit down for a chat with Hasney Aljofree, the Head of Coach Education at the Football Association of Singapore.
This episode explores how Hasney's background and experience in the UK, has shaped his approach to coaching and player development.
One of the key themes discussed is the importance of cultivating a lifelong love for football among young players. Hasney sheds light on the passionate grassroots coaching community in Singapore, emphasizing the need for coaches to feel valued and empowered. He draws parallels between the football ecosystems in Singapore and the UK, highlighting the importance of support systems and experienced coach developers. These elements, he believes, are crucial in ensuring every young player receives the best guidance on their football journey.
The episode also delves into the evolution of coaching, underscoring the necessity of blending practical learning with theoretical knowledge. Hasney discusses the creation of solid frameworks for coach development, which he believes are essential for driving success in Singapore's football scene. He envisions a future where governance, quality control and passionate collaboration are the pillars of football success in Singapore. His vision is not just about creating skilled players but also fostering a genuine love for the game through creative and adaptable coaching relationships.
As we listen to Hasney's insights, it becomes clear that the art of coaching is about more than just techniques and strategies. It's about building meaningful relationships with players and understanding their individual journeys. Hasney emphasizes the dual aspects of coaching: structured session design and the more nuanced art of connecting with players on a human level. This holistic approach, he believes, is key to inspiring the next wave of coaches and players alike.
Enjoy!
This is the Silver Fox Hustle podcast. This is the football talk episodes and share the love with your friends and family. We are out on Spotify, apple Podcasts, youtube and the Works, obviously. And today we've got a good one, as usual, and we've got the head of coach education here in Singapore, the Football Association of Singapore. Our friend over here is a former professional in the English League and he played for clubs like Bolton Wanderers, sheffield Wednesday and the Works, and he started coaching in 2010, I believe, and he is a coach, or he was a coach developer, with the PFA from 2021. We'll talk a little bit more about our friend across, mr Hasnial Jofri. Welcome to the podcast, my friend.
Speaker 2:Yeah, good morning, glad to be here. Thank you for inviting me. I think we've four months in now. I think we spoke early doors around coming in to have a chat and discuss football and coaching, to have a chat and discuss football and yeah, coaching, yeah.
Speaker 1:and let's, before we talk about coaching and you know what we're here for how was last night? I hear?
Speaker 2:you had a very good night last night and tell us why? Yes, obviously. I'm a huge Manchester United fan and finally things yeah, they kind of they came all came to fruition at one point, so they got a 4-0 win against Everton. Managed to watch the game a bit late, however, it was good to see the club moving forward, with a new manager, new expectations, new ambitions. Hopefully it's a good sign for the future.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think I know your son is playing for man U and obviously he's loaned out. Talk to us a little bit about he's Sonny, right, sonny yeah he's 19.
Speaker 2:Sonny's been at Manchester United since the age of 7 I believe, so a long time. Most of his life is probably all he's known. And, yeah, I think this year he's had an opportunity to go out on loan and play first-team football. So I think between the club himself, his agents, they all decided that I think the best thing for this year was to get out and play men's football in the lower leagues and go against the big men, maybe the ussel and bustle of league football week in, week out, saturday, tuesday, saturday Tuesday and get the bumps and the bruises and the broken noses and maybe the things that he wouldn't get at Manchester United now. So I think he's having a wonderful experience right now.
Speaker 2:I think he's played the last 10 or 11 games on the trot and I'm really proud of him, how he's coping dealing with league football at League 2, which is he can be brutal. I think at the weekend he was telling me all the I guess, the headers that he tried to win against a 6 foot 7 guy and no, he's. I'm very proud of him, he's. He's doing all the right things to forge a career in the game. So, yeah, very proud he's. Manchester United are doing well looking after him. He's just signed a new big three year and I think this step now will hopefully, when he comes back into the next season, that he puts himself in a position where, you know, he either gets loaned out again to a higher club or the club might kind of keep him in the building for some opportunities at Old Trafford.
Speaker 1:You have interesting roots here. Yeah, Tell us a little bit about that. I mean family, you know.
Speaker 2:My dad was Singaporean. He's sadly passed away. However, yeah, I mean huge family here and getting to know more of them whilst they've been here for the last four months. So family all over Singapore, I guess from the age of 10. I think it was the first time I came here and from then I've been coming on holidays with the family here and there. But I guess being here now working has allowed me to have some proper time and understand his family my family who are Singaporean right.
Speaker 2:So I feel a massive connection here. Now I think like even each day that I'm here, I feel like I can feel my dad's here, I can feel like the whole family's here. I feel like I'm Singaporean. I'm out in Salita Hills, pongal, east Coast. I've got a niece who's a lawyer who works down near me where I live in Tanjong Pagar. Everywhere in Singapore I've got family, so I'm very well connected in terms of the I guess the culture and the I guess the life here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just wanted to ask you about you know the past what four or five months or so here and about the culture, and I think that's no problem for you already you know. I think you know the people well and you know food-wise as well, so no problems there. Now let's get into it right, hasni, you are now the head of coach education at FAS. Now just tell us what is the role, the, the job scope you know for people watching and listening to this? And, and specifically to your role, what, what do you have to do in terms of that role itself?
Speaker 2:yeah, I mean, it's an interesting question. Um, however, if you look at the, the job title, the role itself is is to come in and oversee the coaching qualifications in Singapore. So if you look at, I guess, the standardisation across the board, from the level one courses right through up to the pro licence, is having an oversight and a view on what is happening at each course, each level, and making sure there's competencies and there's a framework around each level, of course, that we're delivering in Singapore.
Speaker 2:So, in a nutshell, that's on a piece of paper that's the job, but, yeah, I think there's plenty of nuances and fluidity within the role to not just oversee the coaching courses. It's to be around, like you say, the people on the ground to understand the level of football here, to understand how football is operated here. Yeah, and I guess the different dynamics that I guess that it poses in Singapore.
Speaker 1:Was there like a set when FS approached you and stuff like that? Was there like a set, kpi, a goal, an objective like set in stone? Like you know, you have to achieve certain things during your two years or so here I mean there's always going to be kpis and things set in stone.
Speaker 2:However, I think the the overall reason why I came here was was to bring an influence of of my journey, my experiences, into singapore. So I guess, if you look at it from a kpi point of view, um, from covid, there's been an issue with getting courses, courses done and completed and, you know, turning up into Singapore recognising there's a lot of people who love to get on coaching courses, so it was how we were going to adjust, I guess, into making sure everybody's, you know, got an opportunity to coach and whatever level it is, we've got to try and find a way of getting courses out and making sure the public, the, the professionals, whoever they are, that they're not, uh, turned away because we can't do a course it's.
Speaker 2:We have to make sure that we can get courses up and running.
Speaker 2:Um then, I guess, across that it's more, it's making sure that we are. We are um, up to levels, up to standards, across, I guess, southeast asia. Um, if you look at af sorry, the Confederation, in terms of what the requirements are and competencies, is making sure that we are aligned and we're not missing anything in terms of whether it be coaching quality, whether it be coaching craft. It's just making sure that we are up to speed and then on the pulse with what's happening.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know you've been here for a couple of months, from August, right Was it August or August, right? So you've walked the grounds, obviously, for the past few months. You watched games, you watched youth games, you watched the SPL as well. You saw coaches in action on the ground, you talked to people. Obviously, what is your impression of the coaching scene here in Singapore? Be frank, be honest.
Speaker 2:Honestly, I'm going to be honest, it's amazing because I see there's a real passion, there's a passion for football here, a huge passion which is it's a culture for me, the passion, of football. It seems to be that everybody's got a team they support, everybody's got an idea of how to play the game, everybody's got an opinion, which is fantastic. The dedication is there. I see, I've been like you say. I've been out and about weekends, from morning to evening, weekdays. Football is happening all over.
Speaker 2:Singapore so there's dedication there, there's no doubt about it. There's people who are very keen to have an influence on Singapore football. So I think, honestly, I see there's an absolute and it's hard. This is hard. Right, it's such a small place, but I think there's a huge benefit here. Right, it's a small place and there's a lot of football happening. So there's no doubt about it.
Speaker 2:There's passion, there's dedication, there's there's an opinion which I think is really important in football that everybody's different, everybody believes different things. But I think this is when I see it not everybody agrees and I think that's a. That's a real positive thing. Quality wise.
Speaker 1:You talked about passion and and, obviously, and and I, I think it's, it's it, you're, you're right, you know, there's always going to be passion for the game, love for the game, and that's why there are opinions, different opinions coming from different people, right? How about quality-wise? And again, it's very subjective, right. What's a good coach, for example? Right? So, in that sense, what have you seen?
Speaker 2:I've seen quality Like honestly, I'm not going to lie. I think there's like I say, when you've got something that becomes something inside you that you want you, that person wants to do, so well it comes out. Now there's different areas of the game, so I you know I can break this up.
Speaker 2:So if you look at the grassroots um framework, so back home grassroots very, very strong, strong, fantastically supported financially by the government, by the FAs, by everybody there's a huge, huge infrastructure back home in terms of the grassroots and I think you have expertise in that area. So what I would say is we have to be careful of and this is where it comes back to the coaching courses and licences is that there's a huge demand for grassroots football here and we've got to make sure, from what I'm seeing is that there's passion, there's dedication, but let's make sure it's aligned to grassroots football. So, for example, here, which is a little bit different to back home, people in the UK are happy to have a grassroots course which would then have specific bespoke add-ons if that makes sense for them to sit in that world and be happy to stay in that world and actually be experts in the grassroots.
Speaker 2:Here's a little bit different.
Speaker 2:So you have grassroots football, which is a huge demand, but then we're having coaches that are going through the ladder from C to B to A and not necessarily an A-licensed coach, is going to be an expert at grassroots, because the intentions of an A-licensed coach is potentially going to be working with elite football or senior football.
Speaker 2:So making sure, where does this all sit within all, I guess, the ecosystem in Singapore? So I see when you talk about quality, I think there's quality there. I think what we need to do is just we need to find a way of making sure that grassroots coaches feel valued, they feel there's an expertise there and it doesn't need to be a jump to run through licences or qualifications. Actually, what we need to do is try and find a way of upskilling grassroots coaches and making them experts in that area. So, in the end, the young players who are coming through we want Singapore to have numbers of players coming through is actually they fall in love with the game because, they've got expert coaches who are parents, most of them but they have a passion to support and develop them young people.
Speaker 2:So it's not about winning and it's not about 11 v 11. It's not about this match of the day, coaching, I call it. It's there and we all have it inside us because we all just talked about man United and things like that.
Speaker 2:But we've got to be careful how we're treating our young people and they are young people and we want to foster that love and that care. So the quality, if I'm honest with you, it's there right. It's how we can get some expertise in that arena and for that to be it's own world and it's fine. And, by the way, you don't need to have an, a licence, to work in grassroots. I think that's where A licence coaches. Again going back to it, they sit in an area for a reason because they're aspiring to work with older people, senior guys around winning games. So I think that, for my point of view, looking back with the parallels of England and UK, is that everything is fine If you want to be an expert grassroots coach. There's a lot of information there, there's a lot of quality around it, there's this support that actually you don't need to jump through qualifications. You can find the right information and be inspired to stay there.
Speaker 1:Let me throw this at you, right, grassroots coach, I'm not talking about in Singapore, I'm talking about in general, right, and you know the lower licences, if you want to call it CEO or whatever, do you think they are underpaid? Especially, you know those because you're working with the younger ones and they're the foundations right, it's a great question.
Speaker 2:So here we go again. So from my understanding here in Singapore is that these pro-licensed and A-licensed coaches working in grassroots Now again you've got to be careful is that it seems to be that A-licensed, pro-licensed coaches will get more money. So that means that I don't know they can get more money, can work in grassroots football.
Speaker 1:Because of the certifications that they've got.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, so they've got this qualification that deems them to have more money. So that can be a problem, right? So you want again going back to that question before we've got to make sure that we've got experts in the right area. So grassroots coaches should be experts and should be paid accordingly. For me Back home in the UK they are. So you have you got fantastic. Um, there's a guy called pete sturgis who's just been over in australia. He's he's renowned for for developing young people. Uh, he's a grassroots expert and he has a niche. He has a, he has his own ip, but he's born through. He loves teaching and coaching and being around young people and he's you know, he's born through he loves teaching and coaching and being around young people and he's doing very well.
Speaker 2:So I think, to answer your question, this is where we've got to be careful and I think I give one reference. I took a job at Manchester United. The academy manager was a guy called Brian McClare. He won the Premier League with man U. He's an expert. What a guy. And I walked in as an under 13 14 coach and in my head I was aspiring to be this I want to be.
Speaker 2:In my mind it was like he's going to think I'm better from the 15s and the 16s and the 17s coach and I've got a b license and a license and a pro license. Thinking, going down that road, he thought I thought he would think that'd be, I'd be better. And he pulled me one day and just said what's, what's your aspirations? And I said I want to be under 18, I want to be under 21. He said why? So? I said well, because you know that means you're a better coach. And he just stopped me in my tracks. He said no, no, no, no, no. I was like well, go on. He said well, why can't you be the best in the world under 13s, 14s? It's such a niche.
Speaker 2:These young people are going through phv and peak height velocity. There's many changes around these young people. Can you, can you be an expert? I said well. I said brian, what about if I want to be this? He said no, we'll push you through and you'll, you'll, you'll gain qualifications because you're here and that'd be you as a person. That you're you're. You as a person want to be better anyway. But why can't you stay here? So I said well, what about the money and stuff. I asked the question. He said did you know our under nine coach is paid as the same as the under 21 coach? And I said no, and it kind of blew me straight away.
Speaker 2:It's actually he referenced the under nine coach, the same as under 21. And it made me feel at heart, and that's why I stayed for nearly 10 years, because actually I was valued at the, at the area I was in, and I wasn't chasing age groups, I wasn't chasing qualifications, I was chasing to be the best version of me, um. So, yeah, that was a, I think when I, when I listened to him, it kind of stuck with me. Actually, I don't need to go through qualifications to to be an absolute expert. What I need to do is be outside on the grass to to um, learn my craft. Yeah, to be an absolute expert, what I need to do is be outside on the grass to learn my craft, to be around coaching every day and talk.
Speaker 1:Now listen, this is a brilliant story, right, and I think this should go out. And it's brilliant because you're right here in Singapore and we got to be careful because we pay based on certifications and that's it right, and this is coming from experience, right? So if, for example, if you are, the higher you go, for example, you are A, for example, right, and if you are doing an under-13 program, you are paid more than the person who's coaching the under-13 but has a B, for example. You know, and I think you're spot on on that part and chasing the papers as well, chasing the certifications. You don't have to if you're really good at that, you know, and it's brilliant, it's a brilliant story.
Speaker 2:I always think back right, so sometimes we can all be caught in. It's like what's that next person?
Speaker 2:doing what can he get? What's going on, and sometimes you can take the eye off what you actually. What's your purpose? What do you want to do? If you're going back into the coaching world? Is that you, the longer you're involved in football, you start to find an area where you want to be. So when I came out of playing, I was there was a choice. There was two pathways I could have gone. There was one into first team football, which I was offered a job as an assistant manager, or the other pathway was to go and work with young people Manchester United on the third team coach. Very different pay at the time. The first team was a shortcut to money and there, and then this other pathway seemed to be right. It was like you're going to break yourself down, haz. You're going to understand how to coach. You're going to learn, you're going to be around young people who are going to test you. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's pretty long term as well, that one yeah.
Speaker 2:So it was like which way are you going to go? And it was. I wouldn't say it was a flick of a coin. However, it got to. Actually, I want a career in coaching, I want to be the best version of me and by, I guess, not taking a shortcut and going straight to first team football of going into the youth development stage.
Speaker 2:It was the best thing that I ever did because it taught me how to coach. It taught me how to behave, it got me to understand how young people operate and, yeah, it gave me a real sense of actually belonging into coaching because I wasn't chasing again. I wasn't chasing to be a first team manager. It was that the initial part. I want to be under 15, under 17, under 18, whatever it might be within Manchester United. But in the end, after being there over a period of time, it made me just fall in love with coaching.
Speaker 1:I just wanted to help. I wanted to support.
Speaker 2:I just thought building relationships was fundamental, yeah, in you know, in coaching and and getting the best out of somebody else. So, and then, if you want to pull it back a little bit more, it was like understand who you are. So the biggest character trait as a coach for me is empathy. Is that if you, if you have ego as a coach?
Speaker 2:you're going to be in danger because at some point it's going to trip you up because you're on this mission and it's about you, and then all of a sudden, you'll get somewhere and it's not about you and you'll collapse. So I think, when I look back, throughout my journey of playing, throughout my journey of coaching and now coach education, I always think about what is your purpose and who are you as a person as well, so trying to find that that guides you and shapes you where you want to go yeah, it's a wonderful sec.
Speaker 1:To the next question I wanted to ask you right, you talk about empathy. We talk about, you know, building relationships and getting a good set of uh coaches. You know building them up and all coach developers. They they are key. You know because you them up and all Coach developers. They are key. You know because earlier on you said about you know coaching courses and stuff. So you need these coach developers and people watching in and listening in as well. They used to be coach instructors, so now they're called coach developers just a different word. How important are they? You know, and obviously it is important, but you know in your mind and head and ever since you've got here, how important are they in building up this group of quality coaches coming up through the ranks?
Speaker 2:They're absolutely huge. You can frame the name however you want it. However, you would suggest that without best practice, without somebody to guide you, it's where are you going? So, coach developers, coach educators they should provide wisdom. So there's knowledge out there and I think knowledge is shared and I think there's. I've seen something I won't share it today, but I've seen something the other day regarding knowledge and wisdom, the difference between knowledge and wisdom, and I think coach, I think coaches, senior coaches, have lots of knowledge and delve into the wisdom. I think coach developers, they need to have wisdom. That means that there needs to be, there needs to be guys there, and mentors, the facilitators, you understand the arts and crafts of coaching and I think that without without having a I won't call it an umbrella, but without having um, a, a strong group of people within any environment like such as coach, coach education, coach developers, then where, where, where we're going right.
Speaker 2:So what we're trying to teach, what we're trying to to get the, the coaches to to do on the pitch, off the pitch, there needs to be some kind of guidance where actually we we have coach developers. Actually they're there, the present. You understand the, the differences with the elite, the grassroots. They've got, um, a vast amount of knowledge of, of the culture. I think that's so important.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, to answer your question, um, there's something that I learned very quickly at manchester united, going back there, is that we had they weren't named coach educators or developers, but they was world-class operators and they were our mentors. So we had people in the system been there quite a long time from sir alex ferguson. These guys would always be there for touch points, for they'd be on like they'd be watching, observing, but they were so skilled it was never in your face. Let's come have a cup of tea, let's have a coffee, let's discuss how you're getting on. You know, and it was at the time it was like, wow, this is incredible, but the way they, I guess they helped and supported my, my growth and my learning it was.
Speaker 2:It was a real skill, it was a real craft it was a real art. So yeah, going back to coach development, coach developers are key because, like I say, I think that it's so important that there's a framework or an umbrella of key people that can guide.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Empathy for coaches and wisdom for coach developers. Absolutely, I got that Brilliant. The courses that you've seen right and obviously you haven't really done enough in terms of, you know, changing things, Because I think you're not here to change things like wholesale right. But from the courses that you've seen and so far I think you've seen quite a lot already, you know, because of the courses being run, how has it been so far? Has it been smooth? I mean, if you compare that to what it has been in the UK, how has that been?
Speaker 2:I mean listen, I think, first and foremost, there's a huge appetite for the courses, for the learning, for the content. I think it's been really, really positive. You're asking me there's a lot of fantastic information. I see all the coach developers when they've been on course leading. It comes from a very good place. There's a lot of theory. I think I've picked up on this pretty early.
Speaker 2:So, listen, there's wonderful things happening at all levels, at all courses, and every course I've been to I've been so encouraged by the energy, the opportunity that the coaches are, I guess, trying to provide the sorry, the coach developers are trying to provide the coaches. On course it's really good. I think the clear difference is there's a huge element now back home of practical learning.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So having a touch point, having a feel for coaching, and then coming back in into classroom for to underpin with the theory, right, so what you felt? What was that about? And then some fantastic like what we have in Singapore. Now there's enough information to come back to and say, look, that was that maybe around communication, something around leadership could be our organisation, whatever it might be, and you know I'm truly- with you with the practical side of things.
Speaker 1:You know, I'm truly with you with the practical side of things. You know, and I think you've done it and you know over the past week as well, we've done a course and I did one course as well You're right about the practical bit because you know, obviously the theory is going to be there, it has to be there, right. But you know from experience, when the coaches go out there and even the past week when they go out there, they didn't realise that it's out there on the pitch. And when they came in and we had a discussion and said you're right, we can have all the theory, the E's and acronyms we have so many in Singapore, and not only in coaching I'm talking about in general but out there on the pitch it's a different ballgame. And they realised. And when they come in for the courses and then they realised, instead of going back and with the keyboard warriors talking about this guy is a terrible coach and this guy is a good coach, but have they been on the field exactly? I?
Speaker 2:mean, that's the beauty of, that's why I love the idea of coaching. It's actually, I think, you've got to think about what you're doing. So coaching is practical, there's no doubt about it. There's different elements of coaching. There's one-on-one coaching. There's team coaching. There's unit coaching. There's inside. You come in, you can present coaching. There's lots of different ways of coaching. However, I always think that you need to have some kind of lifeline or bloodline, whatever you want to call it. There's something that you can always come back to. So you have a moment or a feeling that you don't forget, and it's like that's the reasons why I'm on the coaching course and this is the reasons why I want to get better. It's actually something that you're not so sure about. So I mean, listen, there was two ways for me when I first came out of football. It was all about I know it all.
Speaker 2:I can play football, so I know how to coach the wrongest thing that I could have ever thought. Right, it really slapped me. It got me straight away. It was like there's no chance. You need to understand how to coach.
Speaker 2:That wasn't just by being outside and practically coaching. It was also going in and educating myself, going to courses, going through a journey of learning, and I think that really underpinned some of the things that I was going through at the time, and I think that's so valuable. So I just don't think there's one without another. I call it a continuum. It's that you can have the theory, but you need a practical. Without the practical, you need it both and I think you need to go down this journey of actually it's not one without the other. However, I think, like I say, when I look at the courses here, I think that we need to get outside. We've got a wonderful climate here. It's hot, it is hot. However, we should be outside. We should be outside, we should be learning outside, we can take our tactics boards outside, we can do whatever. We've got the climate to get outside and find ways of maybe talking, chewing the fat, you know, different things that you can have you can find outside on the pitch.
Speaker 1:I see the passion when you speak, right, about football and coaching. And what have you? Now? Let's let you talk about positives as well. Loads of positives, right. Let's talk about the negatives. You know specifics of what needs to be done better. You know and again, we're not talking about comparing with past to the past and whatever, but obviously something needs to be done to go forward, obviously, right. So what have you seen that you know? You think you know, besides the practical bit, right, I think, a little bit more practicality into the things of how we do things right, what needs to be done better coaching wise.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, if we just look at the coach development point, to start with, I think I've come into FAS. I'm really enjoying what I'm doing and, like I say, a lot of people well, most, if not everyone are trying the best and working to try and support the next generation of coaches. What we need to find is frameworks.
Speaker 1:Is standardization is a common practice amongst the courses, certainly around, just give me an example of a framework that you're talking about, and then to what is it?
Speaker 2:So it could be like, say, if we go back to the practical stuff, right, okay.
Speaker 2:So it's like if we have an, have an, a license course running right so it might be that we we as as a license educators will have a menu of coaching sessions that we think that we can. We can demonstrate and we can show, and we can then ask the, the learners to get on and have a go. So it's probably one of them. I've come in and there's there's a lot of football, there's's a lot of coaching, there's this, there's that, but we don't have a pool or a menu of coaching sessions that actually are A-licensed, standard coaching, same as grassroots.
Speaker 2:So there's like I'm saying, if you look at the practical point of view, we could have a framework of coaching sessions for grassroots coaches which are maybe understanding the individual volume of play. So, looking at small-sided pitches 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, the element of fun so the difference is practically along the coaching licenses. Is that actually you can find?
Speaker 2:framework which and again it will be standardized. So at this moment in time, you know yourself, we are actively trying to improve the department and come together a little bit more in terms of getting together and understanding what, what happens on each course, um, but then I think we'd like to say that if you was to go and do a course on beer license chassis, that you'd be able to go and pick up yeah the framework of beer license course kind of practicals, and theory is that we'll have a general population of coaching sessions and also theory.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's like a framework, and then the library of you know, information and drills and whatever to make it more consistent.
Speaker 2:I think so. And then again, we're under AFC right. So also, we have to make sure that we are hitting everything right and, yes, we're in Singapore. The we have to make sure that we are hitting everything right and, yes, we're in Singapore and we have to make sure it's a Singapore way, and that's most important.
Speaker 2:However, we have to make sure that we're hitting AFC recommendations and requirements. So I think along that we have to be mindful and respectful of what's happening, what they want and how we in Singapore try and find and adapt ways to be creative and find our own which is unique to Singapore and I think that's really exciting. So that's part of the initial part of my role is actually, what are we doing on the grass? How are we doing it? And then can we standardise it.
Speaker 1:We spoke about some of the positives and the negatives, obviously, and the KPI at the beginning. So what's the game plan going forward? How many courses are we talking about in the next? It's huge, isn't it?
Speaker 2:I mean, it's probably like any country, right everybody wants to be a coach.
Speaker 2:Everybody wants to get on a journey and I think that's fantastic and I think that we definitely have the demand there. There's no doubt about it. We have to be mindful of who's coming on the courses and I think what we want to do is make sure that the public know, and everybody know, that this course is specific for this and it's going to give you all of these things. So if that's what you want to do, come on the course. It's not a certificate. This is part of learning. Hopefully, you step into the arena and you go and apply the tools that we're trying to provide you on course.
Speaker 2:So if you're grassroots, get into the grassroots arena and go for it and have a go. It might be that you find a, a niche that you well, you might want to work with older people. Then you step to the side and go. How do I find that okay? So, kpis, look at looking at um, I guess short term, long term, I want to make sure everybody who wants to be a coach should be okay to get on courses. I think it's really important. So I think that's been one of the strategies in terms of 2025 is that everybody who's applied for courses over the last couple of years. We want to make sure that everybody gets on the course and experiences, whether it be grassroots or an ICC or a C or a B or an.
Speaker 2:A we don't want anybody to miss out because we can't do it. We intend to do it and I think that, from what I've seen already from planning, we've been very busy behind the scenes of trying to make sure that we get most things done in quarter one. Quarter two, Certainly the level one courses are the grassroots course, so that's the short term definitely.
Speaker 1:Will that be? I think we spoke about this and again, this is not coming from you, it's my opinion, right? I think there has to be a certain standard when somebody, for example, goes into a B or tries to apply for a B, at least you know. So there is going to be something like that being tightened up, right? I think so.
Speaker 2:I think we've got to know what's the aspirations of that individual, all right, so where are they working? Where are they aspiring to go? And I don't think a course stops somebody, or a qualification. I think when we're looking to add people onto our courses, it's that we know the intention. What is it? What's the purpose for that individual? And I think when we can do that, it's not a collective, it's specific.
Speaker 2:If it's me going on a course, why do you want to go on a course? What is it you want to do? What are your aspirations? Where do you want to go? What have you done to this point? And then we can collect the information and say, okay, well, yeah, this course is for you. If not I think there may be it's not for you right now. You need to get back into the big world and get coaching and do a little and then come back again, and then I think we can get, I think, more consistency. I guess the framework behind the preparation going into a course will know who wants to come on the courses and the reasons why. I think that becomes the most powerful tool then, because everybody should know, if you want to go through the coaching pathway, these things that you need to do to demonstrate actually why you're going to apply for yourself and then how you're going to get on the course.
Speaker 1:Well, that's definitely in the pipeline and I'm looking forward to that one as well, you know, because I think not everyone can, for example, be a B-license coach, for example, you know, and so many people are so fixated on just climbing up so easily, right. So I think that's a very good point and it's what two years you have. You have two years, I mean officially, that is. Do you think it's a short runway?
Speaker 2:I feel it is. I mean, look, forget me, just forget me for that situation in terms of two years. I just think, if somebody's in here now and what do they want to do? I think for me we've got to build foundations. We've got to get some real governance on the coach education. We need some real quality control. We need a clear framework of how courses are run. We need to have a clear process of how people get onto courses and then we can build.
Speaker 2:I think, like you say, two years, no, I think if we're saying this is the start of a journey, I think it's so exciting for Singapore, is that actually, if it wasn't me, it'd be somebody else who would probably highlight these things? I think right now it's a little bit of an environment where it's probably everybody's just like I said at the start everybody's been working the hardest just to get along and get by. Now what I want to do is get some real leadership within the department, some control and some real standardisation across the board so everybody knows what they can do and it's not me ruling from the top.
Speaker 2:It's actually giving the tools to all our coach developers and then the aspiring next generation of coaches actually a platform and a framework to work from and then hopefully, down the line, it's going to impact our players in Singapore because actually through governance and quality control, it's actually we're providing some very good courses with very good tools and I think that actually then the coaches go out into the ecosystem and hopefully then develop the players on the pitch a little bit better and hopefully we'll develop better players. I just think that's we're at the start of an exciting journey. You know, however long I stay, I don't think it's about me. I think that there's clear ideas going forward.
Speaker 2:Now I think we we need to pull together. We need to work together as a collective, not just FAS, ced. We've got to work with U SG. We've got to work with the public. We've got to work with every stakeholder, the parents. We've got to pull together because I think there's a huge passion here to improve Singapore football and I think that we've got great people who are dedicated and I just think that we've got to make sure that it's, like I say, it's not ego driven, it's done by the purest form people. We want to be better coaches and we want our players to be better for Singapore and I think if we go down that road, we'll have half a chance of actually going through that process. Okay, we'll see tangible results. We might win some games, we might get to a tournament, I don't know right. I just think there'll be moments where you can actually see there'll be clear improvement on the pitch.
Speaker 1:Hasni, what does success mean to you At the end of your two years? Or it could be two years, it could be four years. We don't know what's going to happen at the end of the two years, right? What will success mean to you in your mind?
Speaker 2:Again, if I go back to me as a person, right as I go back to the fundamentals of life, success, hopefully I've come here and I've provided a positive environment for everybody, that I've been around right. And I think, from that point of view, whether whether we have exciting courses or not, or we have really talented coaches or not, I think that hopefully, through my, my influence here, coming in with, I hope to, I hope this translates that I'm not coming in with an ego because I've come from England and that's that's me being. I'm better than everyone. No, I'm part translates I'm not coming in with an ego because I've come from England and that's me being. I'm better than everyone. No, I'm part of everyone. I want to be, I guess, part of this journey. So I think success for me.
Speaker 2:I say, if I can, with my character, my personality can rub off to actually say coaching, is coaching? Nobody's perfect? To actually say coaching, is coaching nobody's perfect? If it's, it's if without failure, you I don't think you get, you know, you get your learning right. So I quite like the idea of actually being being able to say actually, even coaching courses, that I'm overseeing, that failure is good. I think mistakes are good. Is that it's life, you know is is a journey full of ups and downs, and so is coaching and I think the exam or the pass and fail.
Speaker 2:Um, if I'm honest with you, it it's. If there's a difference back home to here. There's no pass and fail, right. There's a journey and again getting to understand that person is this guy's on a purpose. He wants to go somewhere. This woman wants to go somewhere. Right, they know it's not going to be perfect, it's going to be a rocky road yeah and I think here I think the difference, what I've seen there's a big sense of pass and fail and maybe that's culture. People like the exams and passing.
Speaker 1:I get it.
Speaker 2:I understand you're right however, I think coaching is a little bit more, as we spoke about, it's with practical elements and people that you're supposed to be influencing. They're not always going to be 100% for you. So I just think that we need to step back and hopefully we move away from, say, a summative approach to a more formative approach, and I think that would be success for me, because, actually, freedom of coaching allows creativity, it allows you to fail, it allows you to grow and then again from there, if you really enjoy coaching, you fall in love with it. You'll be an outstanding coach and an outstanding person.
Speaker 1:I want to ask you right, because I like the coaching sessions that you've been doing with the COE coaches. I think you've done two or three, I think something like that, and I think going forwards this is a good deal, right? At least you know you're looking at the coaches, you're talking to them and I think it has been great. And what has been the feedback from them? Has it been good?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's been a real positive. I think it's been very good for them to see me coach. I think sometimes you can hear somebody talk. That we spoke about right. Here's me now.
Speaker 2:I always think it's so important that they get to see you and I think I've said openly, like you won't see an unbelievable session here, but what I'm going to do, I'm going to give you a framework of how I want to coach this session today. Right, so that's allowed. Some buy in with them guys and I think they've seen me kind of just be open and we've shared a lot and I think that the idea of me thinking I know it all we've had. We've had sessions where I've been able to coach and I've had the feedback and I've adapted for the next session because actually I didn't consider and I'm thinking like the heat, the timings, I'm doing things that maybe I've done back home in the UK.
Speaker 1:That no, yeah in the cool there. So these guys.
Speaker 2:I'm looking around it's like they're gagging for water. So no, I think it's been a huge success. It's been amazing. Them guys have seen me coach and I think you know from that standpoint again, there's a feel for them, there's something that actually they can see, opposed to me just telling them. So it's been a real good two or three times. It's been a wonderful sharing opportunity and I think that anytime you get to talk football it's really good. So I think the big thing that we've established early doors with this right.
Speaker 2:So two sides for coaching for me there's session design and the things that we hear all the time around philosophy, methodology, coaching sessions, frameworks and all that and I think we've touched on this. We've seen some of some of this come out, but straight away they've they've understood the other side where I've tried to delve into of the art of coaching. So the art of coaching is when you get to a level of you. You're comfortable with the tools, you're comfortable with the framework, you've got some ideas, but then you've got to translate this now to the players. So then the art of coaching for me is what takes you to another level. So the art of coaching is then being able to build relationships, understand that human being, um, find that connection where you know it's not just, it's not the session size or the stepping in it's, you know what that person is going through. You kind of have a feel for the session, whether to stop it or to keep going.
Speaker 2:So the art of coaching is different. So I see coaching in two aspects it it's the like you say, the session design and the absolute frameworks, and then it's you as a human being, how you over time, get your knowledge, get to that point of actually there's art now. Is that how you connect with people and that's how you build and that's how them players hopefully cannot wait to come back. So I always think the art is the next level and is the next level and we touched on it during the COE is that hopefully they don't just see me say stand here, do that. It's how I can connect with these guys and make it fun and enjoyable, because that's what it's about. Football is about fun, it's about play.
Speaker 1:Wonderful, hasni. I think it has been a wonderful chat right and we talked about you, know your role and what, what you, you are going for in the next one or two years or so. It's been wonderful. Any last words for the coaches. You're the head of coach education anyway here in Singapore. Any last words for the coaches here in Singapore trying to come up, trying to do well for Singapore football.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, listen, I think already I've seen fantastic passion, fantastic dedication. I just think that keep going. I think passion, fantastic dedication, I just think that keep going. I think keep the curiosity. I think that's where, if you're a curious coach, um, this can take you wherever you want to go to. And I think that's one of the qualities I look for in any coach is that somebody's all you know they can be good, right, and you you might have, you might see something, go wow, but delving into that person, I think if you have curiosity as a coach here, that can add on to you. So, listen, keep up the hard work, keep up the dedication.
Speaker 2:Singapore needs all the coaches and I think for us, I want to pull us all together, hopefully that people see me on the ground, they can talk to me. Like I say, I've shared my number with most people. If anybody comes around me, I'm happy to talk and happy to help. I think coaching needs to be that way. I think we should be okay to share and be open and to be okay that it's a debate. Not everybody knows everything, but I certainly think that we've got a strong nucleus of good people here that we can take the country forward.
Speaker 1:Hasnit cheers man. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. It has for being on the podcast. It has been insightful, like I said, and good luck for the next two years and hopefully more than that. You know in Singapore and hope to chat with you and work with you soon mate.
Speaker 2:Okay, thank you, appreciate it.
Speaker 1:This has been the latest episode of the Silver Fox Hustle podcast, the football talk episodes. And don't forget, share the love with your family and friends. We are Spotify, apple Podcasts, youtube. Until the next time, cheers, bye.